Best returning boys 4 x 800 teams
03/15/2017 12:04:26 AM
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A nice article on the best returning 4 x 800 teams. I noticed one possible error, however. It looks like Nixa, noted as the top returning team, may have their top runner, Christian Blake Procell, listed twice under slightly different spellings of his name. This would make Marquette the actual top projected returning team. Marquette's three top 800 runners, Penney, McCandless and Sheridan all had good indoor seasons and should all improve on their previous open PRs. Additionally, Colin Schwab, listed as their 5th man at 2:07, is a real sleeper. He was injured at the end of last season, but still ran a 2:01 relay time. He had a great indoor season winning the 400 at the Mizzou Championship in a PR of 50.60. He should be able to go 1:57-1:58 or better outdoors. Two other Marquette runners who could be in the mix are Ethan Haller and Nick Warmann who ran open 800 PRs of 2:05 indoors. As always, Lafayette will be tough, and I suspect will outperform their projection as the 6th best team. Hindman has concentrated on the upper distances so his PR of 1:56 seems a little soft: he is probably capable of something closer to 1:53. Another real sleeper on Lafayette's team is Nassim Oufattole. He had a solid indoor season, hitting PRs in both the mile, 4:31, and the 800 at 2:04 in the same meet. He looks like an athlete who is capable of going below 2:00. Unlike last year when everyone knew going in that Lafayette was the strong favorite, this should be an interesting year with 4-5 teams in the running for the Class 5 crown in the 4 x 800.
A nice article on the best returning 4 x 800 teams. I noticed one possible error, however. It looks like Nixa, noted as the top returning team, may have their top runner, Christian Blake Procell, listed twice under slightly different spellings of his name. This would make Marquette the actual top projected returning team. Marquette's three top 800 runners, Penney, McCandless and Sheridan all had good indoor seasons and should all improve on their previous open PRs. Additionally, Colin Schwab, listed as their 5th man at 2:07, is a real sleeper. He was injured at the end of last season, but still ran a 2:01 relay time. He had a great indoor season winning the 400 at the Mizzou Championship in a PR of 50.60. He should be able to go 1:57-1:58 or better outdoors. Two other Marquette runners who could be in the mix are Ethan Haller and Nick Warmann who ran open 800 PRs of 2:05 indoors.

As always, Lafayette will be tough, and I suspect will outperform their projection as the 6th best team. Hindman has concentrated on the upper distances so his PR of 1:56 seems a little soft: he is probably capable of something closer to 1:53. Another real sleeper on Lafayette's team is Nassim Oufattole. He had a solid indoor season, hitting PRs in both the mile, 4:31, and the 800 at 2:04 in the same meet. He looks like an athlete who is capable of going below 2:00.

Unlike last year when everyone knew going in that Lafayette was the strong favorite, this should be an interesting year with 4-5 teams in the running for the Class 5 crown in the 4 x 800.
03/15/2017 12:28:35 AM
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THIS is the problem with someone sitting behind a desk in a national office and merely using the rankings function. I know MileSplit/FloTrack thinks this is important, but any of us could do this with the Rankings tab. Sadly, this sometimes pushes legit local/Missouri stories behind what the National people think is valuable to us. This lady merely pulled up the top open times for 800m for returners and added the times. Another obvious error is Lindbergh girls in the 4x800. Open times have them as 9:50's, yet they ran 9:28 at sectionals and all of those kids are back, plus others may break into that foursome. I think our local admins and coaches have a better idea of what is coming this year, than National people only using open time from a tab we all have access to.
THIS is the problem with someone sitting behind a desk in a national office and merely using the rankings function. I know MileSplit/FloTrack thinks this is important, but any of us could do this with the Rankings tab. Sadly, this sometimes pushes legit local/Missouri stories behind what the National people think is valuable to us. This lady merely pulled up the top open times for 800m for returners and added the times. Another obvious error is Lindbergh girls in the 4x800. Open times have them as 9:50's, yet they ran 9:28 at sectionals and all of those kids are back, plus others may break into that foursome. I think our local admins and coaches have a better idea of what is coming this year, than National people only using open time from a tab we all have access to.
03/15/2017 1:22:41 AM
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@JimBeatty There were duplicate profiles of the athlete in the database, which had been in the system apparently for a long time and no one had corrected up until this point. Thanks to this content being created, now aware so its being fixed and updated. Actually the content created is not a feature that is easily found or known by the audience on how to generate projected relay times from their returnees using the XC team scores feature. Some features and stats content might not appeal specifically to some coaches and their team who have mastered where to find info on the site. However the content can appeal to a broader audience of athletes, parents, and parents who aren't aware of how to find it except if its bannered on the front page of the site as well as of interest to those who have an athlete or relay that the content might include being featured on the front page of the website.
@JimBeatty There were duplicate profiles of the athlete in the database, which had been in the system apparently for a long time and no one had corrected up until this point. Thanks to this content being created, now aware so its being fixed and updated.

Actually the content created is not a feature that is easily found or known by the audience on how to generate projected relay times from their returnees using the XC team scores feature. Some features and stats content might not appeal specifically to some coaches and their team who have mastered where to find info on the site. However the content can appeal to a broader audience of athletes, parents, and parents who aren't aware of how to find it except if its bannered on the front page of the site as well as of interest to those who have an athlete or relay that the content might include being featured on the front page of the website.
03/15/2017 9:31:13 AM
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My thoughts exactly! I immediately lost all interest when I saw the same kid listed 3 times on Nixa's 4x8. He's fast, no doubt, but I don't think they'll let him run 3 times... It's hard to project based on open times because more often than not there will be individuals who have ran much faster relay splits. For instance, I have a boy who ran 2:06 open but split 2:00 twice at sectional and state. I also have a girl who did not run an open, but split 2:22 at state -- 3 of my 4 girls on my 4x8 all have split significantly faster than their opens. And one of the girls in my top 4 opens from last year isn't even running this year so there's that. I know I'm not the only one who has kids like that either. To the above point, I'm pretty sure Hindman DID split 1:53 last year at state so that's already off, too.
My thoughts exactly! I immediately lost all interest when I saw the same kid listed 3 times on Nixa's 4x8. He's fast, no doubt, but I don't think they'll let him run 3 times...

It's hard to project based on open times because more often than not there will be individuals who have ran much faster relay splits. For instance, I have a boy who ran 2:06 open but split 2:00 twice at sectional and state. I also have a girl who did not run an open, but split 2:22 at state -- 3 of my 4 girls on my 4x8 all have split significantly faster than their opens. And one of the girls in my top 4 opens from last year isn't even running this year so there's that. I know I'm not the only one who has kids like that either.
To the above point, I'm pretty sure Hindman DID split 1:53 last year at state so that's already off, too.
03/15/2017 9:58:09 AM
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@muxctf15 1:53.962 for Mr. Hindman at the state meet. This site can only do as well as the data it finds or that it is given which is hundreds of times better than 20 years ago when I went to a local college library on the Monday after districts to peruse newspapers across the state for results. Until coaches use the names of their athletes that are on their school's MSHSAA roster, there will always be problems in the database.
@muxctf15
1:53.962 for Mr. Hindman at the state meet.
This site can only do as well as the data it finds or that it is given which is hundreds of times better than 20 years ago when I went to a local college library on the Monday after districts to peruse newspapers across the state for results.
Until coaches use the names of their athletes that are on their school's MSHSAA roster, there will always be problems in the database.
03/15/2017 10:04:31 AM
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Mile Stat - Thanks for the correction and the explanation. Despite the glitch with Nixa, I found this to be a very useful tool. Our off-season indoor club has a number of Marquette's middle-distance kids on it so I am very aware of their athletes and I knew that they would be project near the top in the 4 x 800 this year. Until I saw this I didn't realize they are actually at the top. Probably everyone of these teams have at least one athlete whose open time is not a fair reflection of what they can actually run when pushed, so I suspect that the differentials even out. Pre-season projections are interesting but the fun part of track is that you never know how much improvement young athletes are going to make and, unfortunately,injuries also play a role. Still the 4 x 800 at Class 5 State should be fun to watch!
Mile Stat - Thanks for the correction and the explanation. Despite the glitch with Nixa, I found this to be a very useful tool. Our off-season indoor club has a number of Marquette's middle-distance kids on it so I am very aware of their athletes and I knew that they would be project near the top in the 4 x 800 this year. Until I saw this I didn't realize they are actually at the top. Probably everyone of these teams have at least one athlete whose open time is not a fair reflection of what they can actually run when pushed, so I suspect that the differentials even out. Pre-season projections are interesting but the fun part of track is that you never know how much improvement young athletes are going to make and, unfortunately,injuries also play a role. Still the 4 x 800 at Class 5 State should be fun to watch!
03/15/2017 1:20:03 PM
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I first would like to thank everyone on this site. Over the last 30 days we have posted the highest numbers since the site move to the milesplit network for mid February to mid March! Special thanks goes out to Brandon, Daniel, Sean, Steven, Greg, John, and Chris. For pumping out the content. Our numbers have consistently day to day in the top ten. Little fixes here or there are always happening. See something and our stats guru Alex usually fixes. I know I have to clear out duplicates. As Dean stated it is important for coaches to put offical names not nick names or misspellings. Love ya guys keep up the good work.
I first would like to thank everyone on this site. Over the last 30 days we have posted the highest numbers since the site move to the milesplit network for mid February to mid March! Special thanks goes out to Brandon, Daniel, Sean, Steven, Greg, John, and Chris. For pumping out the content. Our numbers have consistently day to day in the top ten. Little fixes here or there are always happening. See something and our stats guru Alex usually fixes. I know I have to clear out duplicates. As Dean stated it is important for coaches to put offical names not nick names or misspellings. Love ya guys keep up the good work.
03/15/2017 3:12:43 PM
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Well spoken, and let me add a big thanks to you, Coach Banta, for all you do for Missouri High School track and field. This site, in my opinion, has been a big contributor to the uptick in T&F interest in Missouri in the last 8-10 years. I wish we had a resource like this available when I was running track but, in the interest of full disclosure, they didn't even have computers back then! We relied on guys like Coach Hayes or Jim Duncan. Duncan was the Drake Relays announcer for 40 years plus who, I swear, had committed to memory the stats and PRs of every leading high school, college, and post-college athlete who ever competed at the Drake Relays.
Well spoken, and let me add a big thanks to you, Coach Banta, for all you do for Missouri High School track and field. This site, in my opinion, has been a big contributor to the uptick in T&F interest in Missouri in the last 8-10 years.
I wish we had a resource like this available when I was running track but, in the interest of full disclosure, they didn't even have computers back then! We relied on guys like Coach Hayes or Jim Duncan. Duncan was the Drake Relays announcer for 40 years plus who, I swear, had committed to memory the stats and PRs of every leading high school, college, and post-college athlete who ever competed at the Drake Relays.
03/15/2017 4:50:11 PM
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I for one like these type of previews and appreciate the hard work that goes into it. There are glitches from time to time, but as someone said it often because of a similar named school or the coaches entering an athlete with a nickname. After the meets start you can use the comparison tools, and they still ultimately dont' mean anything until the line has been crossed at the state meets for those who make it, but I certainly have found them to be helpful over the years. I had never seen the best combo runner features and thought that was real interesting. We all know kids who are listed won't run that fast, some will run faster, others you never have heard of will emerge as well and that so many run fast with a baton in their hand. It'll all sort itself out in the end. Most people start this week, so good luck to all as May will get here really quick.
I for one like these type of previews and appreciate the hard work that goes into it.

There are glitches from time to time, but as someone said it often because of a similar named school or the coaches entering an athlete with a nickname.

After the meets start you can use the comparison tools, and they still ultimately dont' mean anything until the line has been crossed at the state meets for those who make it, but I certainly have found them to be helpful over the years.

I had never seen the best combo runner features and thought that was real interesting.

We all know kids who are listed won't run that fast, some will run faster, others you never have heard of will emerge as well and that so many run fast with a baton in their hand. It'll all sort itself out in the end.

Most people start this week, so good luck to all as May will get here really quick.
03/15/2017 8:47:42 PM
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[quote=CoachAWJ]Well spoken, and let me add a big thanks to you, Coach Banta, for all you do for Missouri High School track and field. This site, in my opinion, has been a big contributor to the uptick in T&F interest in Missouri in the last 8-10 years. I wish we had a resource like this available when I was running track but, in the interest of full disclosure, they didn't even have computers back then! We relied on guys like Coach Hayes or Jim Duncan. Duncan was the Drake Relays announcer for 40 years plus who, I swear, had committed to memory the stats and PRs of every leading high school, college, and post-college athlete who ever competed at the Drake Relays.[/quote] @CoachAWJ A question, to this point, as a parent, and to the idea of seeing this site grow and prosper.... do you fellas, as coaches, give the site info to parents of your athletes? I sat down with a couple of co-workers today and showed them how to use the site to track their kids, see results of other kids, etc. Both of them were parents of freshman sprinters and they were amazed at the wealth of data/information. I have no idea if more parent members is even something that interests the coaches here (yes, I know what a pain in the arse some can be) but it's just a thought. For me, as the parent of a kid who has gone on to run in college, the site was very helpful in keeping perspective.
CoachAWJ wrote:
ell spoken, and let me add a big thanks to you, Coach Banta, for all you do for Missouri High School track and field. This site, in my opinion, has been a big contributor to the uptick in T&F interest in Missouri in the last 8-10 years.
I wish we had a resource like this available when I was running track but, in the interest of full disclosure, they didn't even have computers back then! We relied on guys like Coach Hayes or Jim Duncan. Duncan was the Drake Relays announcer for 40 years plus who, I swear, had committed to memory the stats and PRs of every leading high school, college, and post-college athlete who ever competed at the Drake Relays.


@CoachAWJ

A question, to this point, as a parent, and to the idea of seeing this site grow and prosper.... do you fellas, as coaches, give the site info to parents of your athletes?

I sat down with a couple of co-workers today and showed them how to use the site to track their kids, see results of other kids, etc. Both of them were parents of freshman sprinters and they were amazed at the wealth of data/information.

I have no idea if more parent members is even something that interests the coaches here (yes, I know what a pain in the arse some can be) but it's just a thought.

For me, as the parent of a kid who has gone on to run in college, the site was very helpful in keeping perspective.
03/16/2017 9:46:50 AM
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I know all our athletes are on it,and I know at least a number of parents are.
I know all our athletes are on it,and I know at least a number of parents are.
03/16/2017 11:13:18 AM
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The one problem with a ranking list like this (and it cannot be avoided) is that it only includes times in the open 800. I'm sure there are plenty of 4x800 teams that have at least one leg run by a guy/girl that is otherwise strictly a 1600/3200 person or maybe a 200/400 person. This happens frequently near the end of the season when some kids don't go on in other events. Every year there are 51 second 400 meter runners or 4:30 1600 meter guys who don't make it out of sectionals. If I was the coach I would have one eye on any kid that can break 52 or 4:30 as a possible 4x800 runner.
The one problem with a ranking list like this (and it cannot be avoided) is that it only includes times in the open 800. I'm sure there are plenty of 4x800 teams that have at least one leg run by a guy/girl that is otherwise strictly a 1600/3200 person or maybe a 200/400 person. This happens frequently near the end of the season when some kids don't go on in other events. Every year there are 51 second 400 meter runners or 4:30 1600 meter guys who don't make it out of sectionals. If I was the coach I would have one eye on any kid that can break 52 or 4:30 as a possible 4x800 runner.
03/16/2017 11:54:10 AM
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@palmtree I see the same issue in the 4x400 if you can call it a problem. But I think the mere fact that there is a relay ranking opens the door for debate and thoughtful discussion which yields a truer picture of what to expect in the relays.
@palmtree I see the same issue in the 4x400 if you can call it a problem. But I think the mere fact that there is a relay ranking opens the door for debate and thoughtful discussion which yields a truer picture of what to expect in the relays.
03/16/2017 12:55:42 PM
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I agree with @palmtree, as seen above, but I would still be interested to see like a bi-weekly rankings the first week of April and then again 2 weeks later and then again right before Districts, etc.
I agree with @palmtree, as seen above, but I would still be interested to see like a bi-weekly rankings the first week of April and then again 2 weeks later and then again right before Districts, etc.
03/16/2017 6:49:26 PM
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Might be something we can highlight
Might be something we can highlight
03/18/2017 7:51:41 PM
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[quote=CoachAWJ]I know all our athletes are on it,and I know at least a number of parents are.[/quote] @CoachAWJ That's good, IMO. I know that neither my kid nor I was told about it through his HS. I was directed to it because I knew people from other programs. My kid likely would have found it through the friends he made running but, again, it was not presented through his school. I just think it would be great to see it presented to all HS runners and parents (yes, I realize not all parents are interested). It's just a perfect tool to lend perspective on the sport and what level a kid is at. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it kind of came up here.
CoachAWJ wrote:
I know all our athletes are on it,and I know at least a number of parents are.


@CoachAWJ

That's good, IMO. I know that neither my kid nor I was told about it through his HS. I was directed to it because I knew people from other programs. My kid likely would have found it through the friends he made running but, again, it was not presented through his school.

I just think it would be great to see it presented to all HS runners and parents (yes, I realize not all parents are interested). It's just a perfect tool to lend perspective on the sport and what level a kid is at.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it kind of came up here.
03/18/2017 11:03:58 PM
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That is where you guys have to help us promote the site in the general. The more the better. The more who sign up the more I can promote and cover in a general. Sense. I am still looking for some one take video and pictures in the middle of the state.
That is where you guys have to help us promote the site in the general. The more the better. The more who sign up the more I can promote and cover in a general. Sense. I am still looking for some one take video and pictures in the middle of the state.
03/18/2017 11:03:58 PM
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That is where you guys have to help us promote the site in the general. The more the better. The more who sign up the more I can promote and cover in a general. Sense. I am still looking for some one take video and pictures in the middle of the state.
That is where you guys have to help us promote the site in the general. The more the better. The more who sign up the more I can promote and cover in a general. Sense. I am still looking for some one take video and pictures in the middle of the state.
03/19/2017 12:06:28 AM
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[quote=bantazmo]That is where you guys have to help us promote the site in the general. The more the better. The more who sign up the more I can promote and cover in a general. Sense. I am still looking for some one take video and pictures in the middle of the state.[/quote] @bantazmo I've got you some new folks in the last few days.....and they are going to tell other parents. 'll help any way I can, but middle of the state is hard while I travel to watch college meets. Can help there with Ohio Valley Conference if ever needed. Again, I'm a big fan of the work you are doing!!! I can't thank you enough!
bantazmo wrote:
That is where you guys have to help us promote the site in the general. The more the better. The more who sign up the more I can promote and cover in a general. Sense. I am still looking for some one take video and pictures in the middle of the state.


@bantazmo

I've got you some new folks in the last few days.....and they are going to tell other parents.

'll help any way I can, but middle of the state is hard while I travel to watch college meets. Can help there with Ohio Valley Conference if ever needed.

Again, I'm a big fan of the work you are doing!!! I can't thank you enough!
04/08/2017 11:14:12 PM
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With their winning 8:06 mark at the Parkview Boys' Night Out Invitational, it looks like Jefferson City is wearing the bullseye right now as the state's top 4x8 Relay team. Drury-bound Brendan Bena led off with a 1:57 split (he would then turn around and run a 1:59 in the Open 8 about three hours later). He would be followed by his Tulsa-bound best friend Jackson Schwartz who posted a 2 flat split. The Jays' two Seniors brought their team to the hallway point in 3:58. The baton was then taken by Junior Cole Biesemeyer, normally a long distance man, who ran a 2:05 split - doing a great job in keeping the Jays in the lead. Sophomore Thomas Nield anchored the Jay's winning effort, running a 2:03 split to seal the deal. Biesemeyer, Nield, and Sophomore Ben Krause give the Jays three solid possibilities to compensate for next year's loss of Schwartz and Bena with Freshman Andrew Dyer a possible fourth. If John Burroughs' 800 Meter men are as good as advertised, then a race between the Bombers and the top-ranked Jays would be interesting INDEED. That is, IF the Bombers were to get a crack at them.
With their winning 8:06 mark at the Parkview Boys' Night Out Invitational, it looks like Jefferson City is wearing the bullseye right now as the state's top 4x8 Relay team. Drury-bound Brendan Bena led off with a 1:57 split (he would then turn around and run a 1:59 in the Open 8 about three hours later). He would be followed by his Tulsa-bound best friend Jackson Schwartz who posted a 2 flat split. The Jays' two Seniors brought their team to the hallway point in 3:58. The baton was then taken by Junior Cole Biesemeyer, normally a long distance man, who ran a 2:05 split - doing a great job in keeping the Jays in the lead. Sophomore Thomas Nield anchored the Jay's winning effort, running a 2:03 split to seal the deal. Biesemeyer, Nield, and Sophomore Ben Krause give the Jays three solid possibilities to compensate for next year's loss of Schwartz and Bena with Freshman Andrew Dyer a possible fourth.

If John Burroughs' 800 Meter men are as good as advertised, then a race between the Bombers and the top-ranked Jays would be interesting INDEED. That is, IF the Bombers were to get a crack at them.

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